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Post by Boston Celtics on Nov 20, 2009 23:16:11 GMT
A lot of GMs have been voicing their discontent with this year's OSFA system and, after much debate, there's a matter which I'd like to continue to debate in this thread. In the future OSFA system, once a Player Agent has eliminated offers from teams after considering each offering teams recent success, the playing time they can offer and the personal mindset of the player they represent. The question is, if two or more teams can offer all these factors: - Should the team the player signs with be dependent upon the Player Agent's decision?
or
- Should the team the player signs with be dependent upon reward points (gained through regular season success (4 pts for a win, -1 point for a loss) and earned through media center articles)?
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Post by bringit - CHA on Nov 20, 2009 23:55:02 GMT
honestly boston, it wont matter, if you change it people with bitch and say "why does the PA get to pick where the players goes, i offered the more money and bah bah bah", then if you do RP, well you no anyway its your league not ours, you should pick w\e you think is right, and if others dont like it well they can just leave. No matter what you do, there will be a % of people hating the idea. just my 2 cents lol
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Post by jlawdrummer - GSW on Nov 21, 2009 0:30:37 GMT
I think the 2nd option, but only based on in season W/L. Not article RP's. Use Article RP's for things like healing players, etc.
Doesn't matter that much for me though, unfortunately. I'm fairly busy nowadays and may leave the league anyway.
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Post by tb - MIL on Nov 21, 2009 0:54:29 GMT
I think the best way to handle is it is having the PA make the decision based on certain attributes such as Playing Time, Players Real Life Mentality, Will to Win, Money and then Situation.
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Nov 21, 2009 0:56:53 GMT
I agree with OPTION 1, which is PA decision.
The best idea would be to capsize the max salary thing, and say you can ONLY increase the cap number by 2 million.
15 mil, 17, 19, 21, 23.
Also I'd add a salary floor system for max players.
Like LBJ and KB next year
that the minimum they must offer for those guys is 13-14 million the first year.
That will make the GM's think more about who and which players they are going after.
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Post by San Antonio Spurs on Nov 21, 2009 1:19:07 GMT
Option #1, I also think we should have a extension period to re-sign your players. They do that IRL so I don't why we don't.
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Post by od3n52 - OKC on Nov 21, 2009 1:31:01 GMT
I think the 2nd option, but only based on in season W/L. Not article RP's. Use Article RP's for things like healing players, etc. +1 However, if article RP's would count for FA signing, I'd go for option one.
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Post by Denver Nuggets on Nov 21, 2009 4:01:57 GMT
Option one as well. Only when the PA cannot decide then we should use RPs or the player agent(s) can discuss amongst themselves.
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Post by Golden State Warriors on Nov 21, 2009 4:47:18 GMT
I'm going with option 3, which is to split up reward points into two categories. Game reward points which are earned through winning games and can be used for anything rewards are used for. (bidding in FA, raise a players primacy, going over the salary cap, and healing your players) and media reward points for writing articles and jersey switches/sig making. (which should only be used to raise a players primacy, heal players and exceed the salary cap through trades BUT ONLY DURING THE REGULAR SEASON)
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Nov 23, 2009 20:38:32 GMT
I like IND's idea but I'd like to add something to option 3.
We have way too many GM's that are too kind on giving 5 points for articles which gives everyone 40+ RPS plenty of times, so they can stat pad on RP's every time on every article.
Why not have 3 to 5 independent GM's decide how how much points each article should get from a scale from 1 to 10 for each article it does not have to be the same GM's it can be any GM's.
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Post by Boston Celtics on Nov 24, 2009 6:22:17 GMT
Some things that would improve the system: A reward point trading deadline date.
The re-signing team's bonus should not be a flat 100 RPs, but equal to the player's in-game rating.
I'll get around to considering all these POVs, right now I'm having one of my recurring insomniac nights and I don't have much energy for it.
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Post by Boston Celtics on Nov 25, 2009 16:16:06 GMT
Just as a preliminary observation, I notice that lots of the opinions here are saying Reward Points earned from winning games should contribute to Free Agency, whilst Reward Points earned from other factors should be spent on healing players and bumping primacy etc.
The only thing with that system is that it complete removes Reward Points from Free Agency. I mean you might as well ditch the idea of receiving 4 RPs for a regular season victory (and losing 1 RP for a loss), because Reward Points with regards to Free Agency would then merely be 100% synonymous with actual team success.
I'm not saying that's necessarily good or bad, just that the entire concept of Reward Points is void if that's all you're doing with them. It shifts the focus onto healing and primacy fixing and that's all RPs would engage with.
I want to point out that whilst I'm taking on board suggestions in this thread I'm still going to make a decision upon what only I think is best.
My decision might be contrary to many of your opinions. I think that making Reward Points an active part of a GMs team-building strategy would make "the game" a lot more interesting and tactical and add a lot more to the league.
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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Dec 6, 2009 12:55:24 GMT
hmmm I didnt see this topic... but I HATE this FA with RP things...it only makes good teams even better...
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Dec 8, 2009 15:43:29 GMT
hmmm I didnt see this topic... but I HATE this FA with RP things...it only makes good teams even better... thank you, that's what I've been saying for a while all it does is make the stronger teams stronger it's like a team already has MJ and Pippen and now they have LBJ and Kobe and Shaq on the team, just ridiculous. and RP is NO DIFFERENT then highest bidder system except it's in POINTS instead of money. I got shafted from all 7 to 10 FA I wanted because I didn't have that extra RP. I didn't even have a shot despite offering up a lot of RP for EVERYONE, not ONE FA I COULD GET. I GAVE IT A SHOT MAN and I got nothin NOTHIN, I even traded for more RP and that didn't work. I don't even like the idea of resigning bonuses cause the teams that have RP can still get RP and make their team stronger.
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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Dec 8, 2009 16:47:37 GMT
hmmm I didnt see this topic... but I HATE this FA with RP things...it only makes good teams even better... thank you, that's what I've been saying for a while all it does is make the stronger teams stronger it's like a team already has MJ and Pippen and now they have LBJ and Kobe and Shaq on the team, just ridiculous. and RP is NO DIFFERENT then highest bidder system except it's in POINTS instead of money. I got shafted from all 7 to 10 FA I wanted because I didn't have that extra RP. I didn't even have a shot despite offering up a lot of RP for EVERYONE, not ONE FA I COULD GET. I GAVE IT A SHOT MAN and I got nothin NOTHIN, I even traded for more RP and that didn't work. I don't even like the idea of resigning bonuses cause the teams that have RP can still get RP and make their team stronger. I didnt even try to sign more FAs cuz everytime it end with the same thing "This is now a RP battle" so the strongest team would always win... I dont have the same interest for sim leagues that I had a couple of years ago, and after this FA my interest dropped even more, I mean the FA is the best part of the off-season, and now only good teams are "enjoying" this.
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Post by Milwaukee Bucks on Dec 8, 2009 16:54:03 GMT
I'll 2nd what Minny/Dallas have said.
On another note, I would also like to see some sort of buy-out option put into motion too...
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Post by Golden State Warriors on Dec 8, 2009 17:41:12 GMT
There needs to be a time limit for how long reward points battles last, the one for Baron Davis started Nov 21 and just ended today. No way should someone be given that much time to respond to outbid someone.
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Post by Boston Celtics on Dec 8, 2009 19:09:25 GMT
The traditional system (without RPs) rewards the stronger teams too though guys, doesn't it?
I'm open to reverting back to the traditional system, but I do feel the RP system can work properly with a few tweaks, maybe it could even operate as the season progresses so we can judge it's impact before it arrives en masse.
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Post by Boston Celtics on Dec 8, 2009 19:25:17 GMT
The tweaks I'd make to the RP system: - The bonus for re-signing teams is equal to the player's rating and not 100.
- Re-signing teams are allowed their bonus, but whatever they offer is deducted from their RP total, even if it puts them below zero RPs.
- We saw, this Off Season, how nobody contended with Washington to re-sign Gilbert Arenas. Washington ended up having lots of RPs to spend on other players despite not having particularly prepared for the OSFA period. Under this rule, 86 RPs (Gilbert Arenas's rating is 86) would be automatically deducted from Washington's total RP balance whether he offered any or not and the Wizards wouldn't have been able to go after any other Free Agents that weren't outside of his already existing team. Washington's ability to then re-sign Lamar Odom would be severly limited also and another team would have a high chance of "poaching" him for themselves.
- Private Messaging and not public bidding for players.
Having said that, it might just be easier, and it seems it'd make a lot of you happier, if we reverted back to the old system. I suppose it'd remove the slight hassle it cost me keeping up to date with everyones RP levels. But I dunno. I'm torn.
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Post by Golden State Warriors on Dec 9, 2009 3:16:43 GMT
I do believe rewards points can work, I think everyone needs to remember this is the first time this system has been used. Having Reward Points with regards to Free Agency be 100% synonymous with actual team success would be great, I mean I had the worst record in the league yet I had more Reward Points then GSW who made it to the western conference finals. Also I again want to bring up a time limit for how long the Reward Points battles should last, I understand that Boston didn't have the internet but I think their should be something set up in case that happens.
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Post by Boston Celtics on Dec 9, 2009 7:19:23 GMT
Yeah that time limit option is a valid point too Indy, good thinking.
With Reward Points, I think another reason I like it, as a system, is because it gives teams with less wins a chance to become a player in Free Agency. The traditional system limits lesser teams to a far greater extent, as far as I can see. Off the top of my head I don't know how successful your bidding was, Indy, but the Reward Points system enabled you to atleast become part of it and not instantly excluded from negotiations due to your team's lack of success last season.
With those tweaks I mentioned above, and most likely the one Indiana just mentioned, and whilst still giving the Player Agents quite a decent amount of power to resemble the traditional system of Free Agent negotiations to the point that even the old Golden State GM agreed on its legitimacy, I think we could still include RPs in the OSFA process.
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Post by Denver Nuggets on Dec 9, 2009 13:06:30 GMT
Private messaging instead of public bidding is excellent. And if there's any doubt on the player agent's part, he could just bring it up to the committee for discussion (assuming all committee members are PAs). I honestly believe most people can make a good judgment of where the player wants to go.
And if really a Reward Points system is a must, then I'd say let RPs be the final resort that PAs would turn to.
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Dec 9, 2009 23:19:56 GMT
RP still has flaws
PRIME example Utah with Kobe, he has 350-400 RP, he loses the RP on Kobe but still has 100-200 left still signed a quality FA with bringing back KB.
the re-signing amount has to be lower from 100 to 50 or 65, it gives the re-signing team too much power.
If we lower that then I am okay with the current RP system with the re-signing bonus.
so instead of Utah having 100-200 RP left he only has 50-75 RP.
another example SAS with all of his RP and Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobli, he signs both of them but still has enough to sign ONE OR TWO other superstars.
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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Dec 10, 2009 2:03:42 GMT
Private messaging in this league didnt work for me...I remember PMing the PA with an offer, and after years waiting the only message that I got was like "your offer was rejected, the player will sign with another team".
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Post by San Antonio Spurs on Dec 10, 2009 2:19:24 GMT
another example SAS with all of his RP and Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobli, he signs both of them but still has enough to sign ONE OR TWO other superstars. But I wouldn't have the cap space to sign a few superstars since TD and Manu would take up most of my available cap.
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