|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 24, 2010 23:07:26 GMT
Another thing that needs to be addressed is bird rights... Boston supposedly told Atlanta that he has bird rights on Dirk, even tho Dirk will not have been there 3 full years... does this mean I have bird rights on Durant even tho he will only have been in NJ like 2.8 years? This is something I disagree with. If it is 3 years then 2.anything should not get you bird rights. If Dirk was acquired mid season then 2.5 years later (next off season) his contracts expires with Bird rights then this has to be applied across the board. Durant would have Bird rights and expiring contract players who were resigned should have Bird rights, or any combination in between. For example, say Dallas acquired Steve Nash with one day left on the season. He plays 1 game and his contract expires. Dallas resigns him for 2 years. After that he should have Bird rights if Dirk does. What is the difference between one contract or two? 3 years is 3 years. Also if you can get Bird rights through 2.something years what is the line? 5 games into the season? 10 games? 41 games? Or just any point before the salary charts advance. I say we avoid all those complexities and specific rules and have one statement. If the player was not on your roster for game 1 of the season 3 years before he becomes a free agent then you do not get Bird rights. So Dirk and Durant will not have Bird rights and their GMs (and all others) must plan accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 25, 2010 0:55:52 GMT
Another thing that needs to be addressed is bird rights... Boston supposedly told Atlanta that he has bird rights on Dirk, even tho Dirk will not have been there 3 full years... does this mean I have bird rights on Durant even tho he will only have been in NJ like 2.8 years? This is something I disagree with. If it is 3 years then 2.anything should not get you bird rights. If Dirk was acquired mid season then 2.5 years later (next off season) his contracts expires with Bird rights then this has to be applied across the board. Durant would have Bird rights and expiring contract players who were resigned should have Bird rights, or any combination in between. For example, say Dallas acquired Steve Nash with one day left on the season. He plays 1 game and his contract expires. Dallas resigns him for 2 years. After that he should have Bird rights if Dirk does. What is the difference between one contract or two? 3 years is 3 years. Also if you can get Bird rights through 2.something years what is the line? 5 games into the season? 10 games? 41 games? Or just any point before the salary charts advance. I say we avoid all those complexities and specific rules and have one statement. If the player was not on your roster for game 1 of the season 3 years before he becomes a free agent then you do not get Bird rights. So Dirk and Durant will not have Bird rights and their GMs (and all others) must plan accordingly. But what if, KEY WORD IF, they had a trade up but the trade was postponed due to lack of voting and it isn't finalized until post game 1? Otherwise I agree with him/you.
|
|
|
Post by New Jersey Nets on Aug 25, 2010 1:22:41 GMT
I agree with Memphis that Durant and Dirk should not have bird rights as they were not 3 full years. However, I must then disagree that we lower the cap this next offseason as I have been planning that it will be at $65 million and have made trades/signings accordingly so I can resign Durant if he does not have bird rights. It would be unfair to me and any other GM who has been planning ahead to suddenly lower the cap.
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 25, 2010 8:04:15 GMT
I say we avoid all those complexities and specific rules and have one statement. If the player was not on your roster for game 1 of the season 3 years before he becomes a free agent then you do not get Bird rights. So Dirk and Durant will not have Bird rights and their GMs (and all others) must plan accordingly. Absolutely. If I said ATL has Dirk's bird rights, and Dirk joined them mid-season, then that's only because I didn't research the situation properly I agree with Memphis that Durant and Dirk should not have bird rights as they were not 3 full years. However, I must then disagree that we lower the cap this next offseason as I have been planning that it will be at $65 million and have made trades/signings accordingly so I can resign Durant if he does not have bird rights. It would be unfair to me and any other GM who has been planning ahead to suddenly lower the cap. I guess we leave it til next season then, and go all the way to $60mil imho. Edited Salary Cap projection.
|
|
|
Post by Atlanta Hawks on Aug 25, 2010 9:09:51 GMT
Hey Ian, actually i reminded u i got Dirk in midseason, but with a 3 Year contract. You confirmed it to me like over 6 months ago i have the Full Bird years, As the Rule says i Need to have him 3 years, but not mentioned Full three Years on my team. Maybe you Remembar the Trade also with by um and camby in it. It Took months to go through and cost me the chamionship. But dirks confirmed Bird Years were the only positive Thing. Now i Built a Team Around Franchise Player Dirk. I wish you can keep to your word and confirmation and Dirk has the Bird Years, As i got him with a 3yr contract. But i agree we Suizid always continue to work on the Rules, but not changing it backwards, which Coupe Dralls hurt GMs Hefe
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 25, 2010 9:26:14 GMT
Hey Ian, actually i reminded u i got Dirk in midseason, but with a 3 Year contract. You confirmed it to me like over 6 months ago i have the Full Bird years, As the Rule says i Need to have him 3 years, but not mentioned Full three Years on my team. Maybe you Remembar the Trade also with by um and camby in it. It Took months to go through and cost me the chamionship. But dirks confirmed Bird Years were the only positive Thing. Now i Built a Team Around Franchise Player Dirk. I wish you can keep to your word and confirmation and Dirk has the Bird Years, As i got him with a 3yr contract. But i agree we Suizid always continue to work on the Rules, but not changing it backwards, which Coupe Dralls hurt GMs Hefe Dude what are you smoking, lol. That trailed off at the end there Maybe I did research the situation properly at the time. Maybe you do have Dirk's bird rights. I remember now that your trade for Dirk came at a weird time of year. Was that the trade that was postponed because you entered the playoffs? I think if the trade was proposed and submitted before the Playoffs ended, then in that situation you get the benefit of the doubt. But, just to make sure, that doesn't mean Dirk is treated as having played since the start of the previous regular season. I'll need to check up on dates properly first, I'm going to do that now.
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 25, 2010 9:31:58 GMT
Trade for Dirk submitted 29th Sep 2009. 2008/09 season ended 11th Oct 2009.
So when Dirk's contract expires you'll have had him on your team: 12 days of 2008/09 season The entire 2009/10 season The entire 2010/11 season.
Which means you should not have his bird rights.
What did I say in my message to you? What was it based on?
|
|
|
Post by New Jersey Nets on Aug 25, 2010 14:49:02 GMT
I think it would be a good idea to make a thread in which every team posts who they think they should have bird rights on for this offseason, and then the committee can research all of the players and confirm them
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 25, 2010 16:20:47 GMT
Damn, it will be like the economy crashed in Dynasty Five world
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 25, 2010 16:37:26 GMT
Trade for Dirk submitted 29th Sep 2009. 2008/09 season ended 11th Oct 2009. So when Dirk's contract expires you'll have had him on your team: 12 days of 2008/09 season The entire 2009/10 season The entire 2010/11 season. Which means you should not have his bird rights. What did I say in my message to you? What was it based on? I think there is no way Dirk should get his bird rights. I really do understand that you don't want to go back on what you said, since that is not the best precedent to be setting and all, but 12 days is only like 5 or 6 games. Plus your aren't leaving him with his hands tide in a ditch somewhere, he has an entire year to fix the situation, whether it by getting under the cap at all costs or trading for similar value. I don't know the details but those are my thoughts on it. It basically means a trade submitted before the playoffs gives the player bird rights 2 years later.
|
|
|
Post by Denver Nuggets on Aug 26, 2010 12:30:38 GMT
Agreed that no way a player should have his bird rights if it's not the full three seasons, especially not when the team has only had the player for 12 days, which amounts to like 2.05 seasons.
If it was delayed like a few days into the new season, and that season being the first of his three seasons there, then perhaps the committee could make an exception. But from what I've read so far, I definitely don't think that the Hawks should have bird rights on Dirk. Trade him quick ATL:P
|
|
|
Post by New Jersey Nets on Aug 26, 2010 12:51:35 GMT
Alright, I think I'm going to start up the discussion about MLE again. Here are some of my thoughts
With a new cap at $60 million, the MLE becomes even more significant (it is worth almost 10% of the cap now). Since this is not real life, and owner's don't care how much money they spend, and there are no taxes or income or any actual consequence to using the MLE, I think it should be lowered. With the cap at $60 million, a team would need to have less than $54 million in salary to be able to bid as much as a team with more than $60 million in salary. This is going to be very hard to do, seeing as people are going to take up more of their cap space resigning players and securing their own teams.
Therefore, I am proposing a $3 million dollar MLE in this league which only a team above the cap at the start of the offseason will receive. Currently, the MLE almost rewards a team for being over the cap. This new MLE would still reward a team, but do it in a much more league-friendly manner. Free agents like Rasheed Wallace and Shaq could still sign to the MLE because other teams will theoretically not have as much money to bid, making the $3 million seem much more lucrative.
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 26, 2010 15:47:45 GMT
I dunno, the problem with that is there's no reason teams shouldn't be allowed to spend up to the full MLE. Money is nothing to all of us GMs, in trading and regular OSFA signing too, and we don't restrict anything there.
|
|
|
Post by Dallas Mavericks on Aug 26, 2010 17:23:40 GMT
I think the best loophole for MLE would be
ONLY teams over the salary cap can use the MLE, and the MLE is up to 3-3.5 million per year.
So teams just can't rely on MLE and use 5-6 million dollars to sign a veteran player but at the same time they can atleast sign 2 or 3 guys to the roster if they don't have 12 players or they are just looking for some help to strengthen the bench.
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 26, 2010 17:25:08 GMT
I have to disagree too because the MLE isn't based on any money availability reasoning or something, it is based on the average contract of all NBA players and lowering the cap doesn't change the average contract.
|
|
|
Post by Atlanta Hawks on Aug 27, 2010 20:49:10 GMT
Trade for Dirk submitted 29th Sep 2009. 2008/09 season ended 11th Oct 2009. So when Dirk's contract expires you'll have had him on your team: 12 days of 2008/09 season The entire 2009/10 season The entire 2010/11 season. Which means you should not have his bird rights. 1) What did I say in my message to you? 2) What was it based on?yoo finally back from some days in italy 1.) I asked you if Dirk has the bird years after the 2010/11 season? The question to you was if he has the bird years, as i got him in midseason (before playoffs start)...i quote the bird years rules: I got Dirk with a 3 yrs contract. so i had him 3 seasons: 2008/09, 2009/10 and now 2010/11. -- The rules do not say it has to be a full 3 seasons! -- The rules also dont specificate a special deadline date. I was pretty sure i'll have the bird years, and was pleased with the confirmation you gave... i know some teams with salary cap want dirk as a FA (Memphis f.e.)...i understand that, but i just handled everything withhin the rules + your confirmation so it would be great if I can resign my cornerstone and franchiseplayer and countryboy from Germany. 2.) It was based on that the trade was accepted before the 2008/09 playoffs. So i had Dirk in the 3 seasons: 2008/09, 2009/10 and now 2010/11 with a three year contract ($17,912,518 $19,793,332 $21,675,150). According to the rules you gave me then confirmation. Well its actually pretty easy...Dirk is 33 years next free agency and i want to give him a great contract for the awesome success in Atlanta@D5. But im openminded if u want to change the rules, then we dont have to discuss this too much
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 27, 2010 21:12:37 GMT
I see that as clearly saying they must be on the same team for 3 full seasons (and that is what has always been implied when it is discussed elsewhere) or more and not played a game within 3 seperate years. I guess I see how you can misjudge that but it seems fairly straight forward to me.
|
|
|
Post by Atlanta Hawks on Aug 27, 2010 21:44:01 GMT
I see that as clearly saying they must be on the same team for 3 full seasons (and that is what has always been implied when it is discussed elsewhere) or more and not played a game within 3 seperate years. I guess I see how you can misjudge that but it seems fairly straight forward to me. do you read the word "full" "entire" "whole" "complete" or whatever in the rule? no...it just says three seasons...but not how long in the first season or whatever...its even very very hard to get bird years here...and i never understand the rule, as in the NBA bird years get traded with the player... well Memphis, i really understand u...u want Dirk, as do I...but after a ring as a captain in Atlanta it would be quite unrealstic that he joins another team at the age at 33... I handled everything in the rules and got confirmation from the admin...there is nothing more i can get...
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 27, 2010 21:47:12 GMT
"Only the Sith deal in extremes." - Obi Wan Kenobi.
Anybody who sees this Dirk situation as clear cut one way or the other is wilfully distorting this situation. It's going to be interesting and I imagine I'll have to lay down the law somewhere along the line.
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 27, 2010 21:58:01 GMT
Atlanta, I just checked every single PM we sent each other since you joined the Hawks, I can't find anything about Dirk and bird rights. If you can find me the PM and show me the date to look for it, then we can re-open a discussion about you having Dirk's bird rights.
|
|
|
Post by Utah Jazz on Aug 27, 2010 22:01:44 GMT
Atlanta, I just checked every single PM we sent each other since you joined the Hawks, I can't find anything about Dirk and bird rights. If you can find me the PM and show me the date to look for it, then we can re-open a discussion about you having Dirk's bird rights. Out of curiosity, how many total PMs are in your in your inbox???
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 27, 2010 22:05:06 GMT
I see that as clearly saying they must be on the same team for 3 full seasons (and that is what has always been implied when it is discussed elsewhere) or more and not played a game within 3 seperate years. I guess I see how you can misjudge that but it seems fairly straight forward to me. do you read the word "full" "entire" "whole" "complete" or whatever in the rule? no...it just says three seasons...but not how long in the first season or whatever...its even very very hard to get bird years here...and i never understand the rule, as in the NBA bird years get traded with the player... well Memphis, i really understand u...u want Dirk, as do I...but after a ring as a captain in Atlanta it would be quite unrealstic that he joins another team at the age at 33... I handled everything in the rules and got confirmation from the admin...there is nothing more i can get... haha lol I don't have a hope in hell in signing Dirk. That has nothing to do with it. I like your angle though Like I said I see how you can read it that way, the wording is not perfect but I am just saying the way I see it. I think you are looking at in a wishful thinking sort of way because you want to keep Dirk. Ultimately it's whatever Boston is going to say I don't think we are going to get anywhere
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 27, 2010 22:05:26 GMT
56 Pages of Outbox (there are 50 PMs per page) and 40 Pages of Inbox (1,998 exactly)
But I had a mass-deletion of Inbox messages a while back when it became bugged cos it was too high ;D
|
|
|
Post by Atlanta Hawks on Aug 27, 2010 22:25:29 GMT
56 Pages of Outbox (there are 50 PMs per page) and 40 Pages of Inbox (1,998 exactly) But I had a mass-deletion of Inbox messages a while back when it became bugged cos it was too high ;D the PM was months ago...i always delete outbox and inbox when it reaches 150 (i just delete page 2 and 3 then)...are the deleted messages somehere? EDIT: i also asked u, Ian if Billups has the bird years (cha trade: dynastyfive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=acceptedtrades&action=display&thread=4237) but this trade was late and so i only had the bird years for Dirk not for Chauncey (so i traded him this offseason). im not sure, but think u said the trade has the be accepted from both GMs BEFORE the start of the playoffs to get the bird years!?
|
|
|
Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 27, 2010 23:09:49 GMT
I've just been through 20 pages of my outbox for the third time. The only discussion regarding bird rights I found was regarding Joe Johnson: It's never possible to be absolutely certain about anything, but I think I can say with confidence that: 1) I don't appreciate having to look through my PMs when I've got an absolute shit-load of stuff to get through and this rather ridiculous matter is stalling things for everybody else. 2) You do not have Dirk's bird rights.
|
|
|
Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 28, 2010 0:17:26 GMT
But he already has him this season... so next OS he has Bird?
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 28, 2010 0:20:26 GMT
But he already has him this season... so next OS he has Bird? no, this whole discussion was about bird rights for next season
|
|
|
Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 28, 2010 0:21:44 GMT
yeah, but this OSFA is done right, talking about Dirk not Erybody.
|
|
|
Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Aug 28, 2010 0:24:46 GMT
yeah, but this OSFA is done right, talking about Dirk not Erybody. I'm not really sure what your saying but basically this offseason is over, smush parker is available so I hear though
|
|