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Post by New Jersey Nets on Jul 20, 2010 3:55:31 GMT
If you watched any Spurs games, you would see that Tim Duncan is not even the same player. He has turned into a pick and pop jump shooter instead of a dominant post player... he is basically Zyndrunas Ilgauskus with better defense and more touches
Manu Ginobili is about to turn 33 years old. He had the lowest shooting percentage since his 2nd nba season. Honestly, an 87 for him has always been kinda ridiculous. We are putting a bench player on the same level as guys like Vince Carter and Paul Pierce. Manu got 19.5 ppg one season, and has never gotten more than 16.5 in any other season during his career. He is a good defender, but not great... his stats benefit a lot from the players he has around him.
Ray Allen had the lowest ppg since his rookie season... he still doesn't play defense though.
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Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Jul 20, 2010 3:59:35 GMT
Ginobli is easily a starting quality talent, he comes off the bench to balance the lineup and add a punch off the bench, same goes for Jason Terry and they both play starters minutes anyway.
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Post by Boston Celtics on Aug 17, 2010 14:45:53 GMT
Stickying this thread for when the off season ends.
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Post by Atlanta Hawks on Aug 21, 2010 22:11:49 GMT
the list is good...some modifications: players way over thirty should get a bigger decrease-- M.Redd (max 78-80) -- Ray Allen (if Monta Ellis is a 79 its though for Allen to stay over 80...pure shooter, doesnt play anymore D as New Jersey GM mentioned above...) -- Vince Carter (a shadow of his own...never played any defense, now struggles on the offense too...imo max. 78-80) -- McGrady (well he signed a minimum contract late this offseason... nobody wanted him...why? sadly he is done since 2 years...74 max.) -- Ginobili (still a good player but already 33...and 87 was always - as NJN mentioned too - very high...83 would be fair i guess) Tim Duncan (still the best of this group thanks to his awesome skills, but not 90+ anymore...his body is done, the game is still there...84-87...and he would be in the range of Boozer and Gasol...) give young players a chance...im speaking of great draft picks (1st or 2nd overall) who have had troubles with injuries or other...-- Greg Oden (82) -- Michael Beasley (82) -- Griffin give them a season... players whose teams sucked or had other troubles, but still are way under 30...let the rating be the same...-- Ben Gordon (used to be a 82...now a 80...still a great offensivce machine) -- Gilbert Arenas (used to be a 94...now a 91...still young and there nothing he cant do (offense, defense, passing, running, dribbling...had a career high in assists this season before taking a gun with him...will give u 28-7-5 again...)
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Post by Miami Heat on Aug 23, 2010 8:32:49 GMT
the list is good...some modifications: players way over thirty should get a bigger decrease-- M.Redd (max 78-80) -- Ray Allen (if Monta Ellis is a 79 its though for Allen to stay over 80...pure shooter, doesnt play anymore D as New Jersey GM mentioned above...) -- Vince Carter (a shadow of his own...never played any defense, now struggles on the offense too...imo max. 78-80) -- McGrady (well he signed a minimum contract late this offseason... nobody wanted him...why? sadly he is done since 2 years...74 max.) -- Ginobili (still a good player but already 33...and 87 was always - as NJN mentioned too - very high...83 would be fair i guess) Tim Duncan (still the best of this group thanks to his awesome skills, but not 90+ anymore...his body is done, the game is still there...84-87...and he would be in the range of Boozer and Gasol...) give young players a chance...im speaking of great draft picks (1st or 2nd overall) who have had troubles with injuries or other...-- Greg Oden (82) -- Michael Beasley (82) -- Griffin give them a season... players whose teams sucked or had other troubles, but still are way under 30...let the rating be the same...-- Ben Gordon (used to be a 82...now a 80...still a great offensivce machine) -- Gilbert Arenas (used to be a 94...now a 91...still young and there nothing he cant do (offense, defense, passing, running, dribbling...had a career high in assists this season before taking a gun with him...will give u 28-7-5 again...) Disagreed on some parts. - I definitely wouldn't put Ray that low, especially as you mentioned the D part, he and Tony Allen both combined did a heck of a job against Bryant during the Finals, the 40% was no coincidence. 82 sounds still fair for him. - Same thing about Vince, the dip in points came from playing 6 less minutes, not because he suddenly started to suck. He's not elite anymore, but still borderline All-Star worthy. 82 to say the least. - Now the worst one yet, 91 for Arenas? Seriously, this isn't 2007 anymore. Thanks to very high usage rate (I mean very high, 32% Usage %, that's 6th in the entire league, Durant had the same amount of possessions, yet Arenas scored 22 points out of it, while Durant scored 30 points). (PS. I don't hate Arenas, opposite of that, I'm hoping he could recover and be one of the top players again) 85 min, 87 max I'd say. - As for Duncan, agreed that he should get decrease, but not by that much, I would still take Duncan over Arenas any day of the week and it's not even close (who you'd think should be 4-7 points higher), the stats decrease are affected by less minutes again, not because less production. Per36 minutes he still puts up the same numbers as he did the past 5 years, only thing different is that he blocks less shots (and it's not like he can't play 36 minutes anymore, he does that in the playoffs). I suggest 90. - As for Oden and Beasley, I would slightly dip their ratings to around 78, both are capable of becoming 80+ and fast, but they haven't shown that on consistent basis yet. - I would give McGrady the benefit of doubt that he can still be a decent player, 74 would be too low in my opinion, but not a lot more either (he has actually played more games during the last 2 years than Redd and was much better than him as well, when you compare these two). As for the others, mostly agreed.
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Post by San Antonio Spurs on Aug 23, 2010 15:37:14 GMT
Duncan should stay where he's at, unlike most of the other bigs (KG, Shaq etc), his skillset doesn't rely on athleticism so his game transitions well with age. He's averaging pretty much the same numbers PER. He's just not getting as much minutes since's he's getting older. If anything, just lower his stamina but I think he's fine where he's at. I always felt he was underrated at 91 anyways considering KG was a 97.
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